i couldn't quite tell practically if there romney people wanted to just be out front so they were getting down there quickly, or if they felt that there guy wasn't doing all that well and they wanted to come and search for an alternative narrative very quickly. so that was an interesting thing. being here in the hall was very interesting watching those obama zingers come one after the other. it's going to be interesting to see how those play a very aggressive performance by the president. the question whether it will seem a little too aggressive, the republicans are already charging he didn't seem presidential than some of those moments. on the flip side, as you were saying, there was some concerns that we are seeing on the right already about what romney is aggressive enough. did he try to hard to look presidential and show some bipartisan spirit and agree with the president but not in that making his own foreign policy perhaps he should have. >> i love the calculation of calibration.

how to out the debate in the head to think about how aggressive july look, how aggressive do myself? it was so clear that mitt romney who could be oisin in the program was never going to flinch, never going to show a flash of anger and it's clear barack obama in every debate does not like mitt romney. by the end of you saw there was a shot on some of the different shows where you could see both of them at the table he looked like by the time he was going to be on top of mitt romney. he felt so agitated i think. he finds -- we hear this from a lot -- he finds that romney to be dishonest and almost every answer he gives and therefore he almost seasons with anger when he talks to reduce bernanke guilaume that might come obama, he said two weeks ago that what you said. >> the air brushed history. >> rachel, did you have a thought on that? >> that's been proven ongoing narrative that connects all of

these including the vice presidential debate putative how aggressive should you be, how do you come out as assertive and so commanding and presidential, how do you correct the other without seeming angry if you try to look presidential mabey obama did try to in the first debate you end up not registering at all. a look at all the criticism after the first debate about how obama was and how he didn't show up and then we saw an extremely aggressive joe biden and the vice presidential the date. but for the last that might have worked better with the last nominated. so it's like in each of these and then in the third it looked like fight club was happening. and that was toned down a little bit in the debate, a much softer tone from both men added to the fact they were sitting tonight instead of standing trying to hit the calibration that gets the right effect. >> needelman of the candidate seemed to have a foreign policy

debate either. they talked about foreign policy for the first few minutes and then they made every effort to turn it back to the all important economy, john, the deficit. we heard a lot of shots to teachers there at the end as well. >> i think in the campaign there's been a lot of firsts and a lot of memorable moments in the debate and we will look back years from now and letting people will look back on this debate as the debate that the two candidates agree on more things for more minutes than in any other debate that we have ever seen. iran, libya, syria, afghanistan, iraq, essentially china, where they were on russia. there is no difference. everything. love it, love it. i got every e-mail from a republican that says mixed messages. i would do exactly what the president did only better. >> right, and bigger. >> right, right. >> it is a tough position to be

an and that is why in some ways that made from the's performance even more remarkable because he was so willing to work but there were no major distinctions, and for all of the polarization and the politics, for all of the ideology that radiates in the two parties today, it is amazing how there has been a convergence wind counterterrorism we are going to be aggressive whether it is waterboarding for using drones to issue that people simultaneously right now. there is convergence getting the troops out of afghanistan in 2014. convergence. not getting into any other wars or u.s. forces in places like syria. convergence. it's basically true for congress. there are disagreements, but sort of the neocon wayne of the republican party loses the entire war left which is very defining in the bush years. none of that exists anymore. it seems like they've just narrowed the difference. >> governor romney moved towards the president's position of iran

as forecast and a preview showed he didn't attack on the idea of talking with iran. there was a remarkable moment -- >> agreed on egypt, too. it was just endless. >> remarkable moment when the president said the lead story on the sunday "new york times" was not true. they reported that there was an agreement for iran and the u.s. to sit down face-to-face and use the words not true, which is pretty remarkable. now, to go behind the curtain on that, there is certainly an opening towards that. we probably will see that. it's headed toward that. they just don't have a specific agreement. so look at the head line, and it went too far. just to the story was right and the president didn't dispute that. >> the one thing that struck me in the debate coming and i would be interested to see tomorrow way and is i felt like at some point about halfway through, romney ran out of his talking points, and he often --

>> more than an hour debate. >> he often put it into the economy. >> one come two come three, four, five. >> he went back to that but he lost his foreign policy narrative a little bit here and it like he kind of went through all of the flash cards. that's kind of the impression that i got and then obama would keep pivoting back to put him back on his heels. >> it seemed like he did, and we know he did hundreds of hours of prep work over the last several months. briefings at night and carried books around to try to understand each region and was clear on each question whether he was talking with the intricacies of what is happening internally in pakistan or and moly. he wanted to convey i get it. i am ready. i might not have foreign policy experience but i have an intellectual understanding of all of the various threats for happening to the country simultaneously. so, by that object if he probably did. but your right once you have exhausted that and you never had

a position overseas, you are not the sitting president, the head lot to work with. >> but he had a leonid melamed reaction and this may be a tribute to senator robert portman of ohio and maybe this can of a mock debate, but mitt romney's commander in chief moment is when bob schieffer asked you get a phone call that says that israel has begun attacking iran. what do you do? and before the president could react, mitt romney grabbed it and said a first of all, we are not lead to get into the hypothetical as like that and second, we have a relationship with israel that we wouldn't get that phone call. the fact that we would not be surprised. that was a brilliant reaction. >> that was quite -- that was quite good. he also -- there was another moment when obama said to him i understand you've never had to execute foreign affairs. and he said it really quick and went by and those are the kind of comments that i wondering how

they are going to play for obama tomorrow. was that a little too snyde. >> can you think of any moment in the debate that substantively would have been eliminating for the voters? in the areas where i am missing? >> there is a clear distinction how it would lead. i got some e-mails same how is the race different tomorrow? the email said it was too dull to move the needle. >> i wondered if a lot of people tune out. it got in the weeds a little bit and they were too busy hugging each other. romney was clinging onto obama and i wonder of people tune out a little bit. >> of spring out the fund and bring in the facts. josh at the gate, you have been watching some fact checking. you are a student of foreign policy. so are there any areas where the candidates were completely misleading and what they were saying and was there any distinction that you saw that was interesting in the debate? >> well i thought was

interesting how romney's evolution on the departure from afghanistan continued again tonight. you know, it was two weeks ago he made the foreign policy speech talking about sort of a goal of leaving afghanistan by 2014. he talked about pursuing a transition out of afghanistan saying that he was with the commanders and so forth. today he seems to have the joe biden position which is we are out at the end of 2014 everything is on course for us to pull out and it's going great. so it was an interesting evolution and then i'm not sure if he and obama were entirely candid about the dangers of afghanistan. the fact that we have had the experience of the green on blue attacks and we've had afghan troops on the training mission and what have you. suddenly start firing on the u.s. troops and nato forces more than 50 people have been killed, soldiers have been killed in those attacks just in the last year or so. so, they both seem to gloss over those dangers pretty significantly, and then you have this huge fight about iraq as

well. whether obama would have left the tracks behind. i thought the president was a little off the mark at least he never got called foley on the carpet for the fact that the white house did want to lead troops in iraq. they tried to negotiate the lead troops in iraq. not as many as romney would have. he talked about ten to 30,000. the white house never put out a number but was reported to be plugging at three to 5,000. but romney was actually right on that point. the white house wanted to leave troops there and failed to get a deal and then did a complete pullout at the end of last year and the president proclaimed as a victory because it was so complete. even though that wasn't what his administration had asked for. >> josh, when you are doing these stories after every debate you write about the fact checking. how do you pick out the lines that you were going to fact check and how did you determine, you know, in the hour that you have for the two hours that you are naturally going to file what are the biggest waters that need to seize on and you need to

expose for their readers the following day? we try not to repeat exactly the ones that we've done before. and you look at the debate where one or the other candidate says we have a transcript or something along those lines. that's always a signal that one side or the other things the have the one in a factual error and that is something that grabs our attention. and then at politico what we try to do is add that on different issues like transportation, even tonight supposed to be foreign policy debate but our health team are contributing on what are the costs involved in obamacare and what repealing it really bring enough money to pay for additional troops? we were able to draw on that very detailed knowledge about the mechanics and the budget numbers to assemble a fact check that involves not only me and another call author, but people from around the politico empire. >> one of the sure winners in

the cycle is the fact checkers get lots of attention and the president even referred to them after mitt romney repeated what he would have done on the although bailout, he said ahead and check the facts and the president said people certainly are. who was more right or what is the horse back opinion on who has a better argument when they were talking about what mitt romney would have done on the bailout. >> i think that obama has a better argument but it's not clear cut you go back and look at that piece that he wrote in "the new york times" and it does talk about offering the government loan guarantees in some sort to these companies if they went through bankruptcy the problem is a lot of experts that the that the situation say what he was talking about wouldn't have really been feasible because there were not enough private companies willing to loan money in that very, very

stressed type of early 2009 who were in bankruptcy and were very hard to come up with capital. so, there are some on both arguments. romney is also right when he repeatedly says the companies did go into bankruptcy. obama doesn't really acknowledge that. succumb on this 1i would say that obama's description of what romney would have done probably is seen as more accurate by most of the people that look at it and they are called into the finances of the companies, but it isn't quite as trusted as the way that obama made romney's sound as if he were just going to shove the company's off a cliff. >> thank you, joshed. we appreciate your reporting and the amazing part of the political performance and here there are stories already on the website come fact checking i think three or four different fact from the date. if you go to politico.com you can get a full list. we have policy teams that cover everything from transportation to health care to policy defense coming and we will be fact

checking every part of the debate. a couple of things coming across the e-mail, two different polls. a cbs poll of undecided voters showed obama winning the debate easily. and the ppp much as a democratic cleaning poll for the campaign season had a sample that had 53-42, obama in a swing state, and the people the survey, people are planning to vote for obama 51 [laughter] 45 and a breakdown by ten swing states. >> the important thing to make but the cbs poll and the reason people are so excited about it shows an amazing 30-point gap of 53-23 but what is interesting is in the first debate which in retrospect was a win for romney was to get 46-22, so that is a good track record. spinnaker will take several days for this to work itself into

certainly the mind of the voters and work its way through the polls. the truth is we are here today where we were everybody thought we wouldn't be two months ago and a race nobody is going to know the outcome until the election might it's going to be very close. no one thinks there will be a surge in the polls one way or another. i feel we are going to have senator john mccain, presidential nominee from 2008 in the the dates with us. senator, to us watching at home it seemed like the debate could have lasted a couple minutes because they could have just said we agree on everything. where do they disagree on foreign policy? >> i did they disagree on the overall weakness of america. i think as romney point of america is weaker over the last four years than stronger the opposition in the world today in iraq obviously the president didn't tell the truth. he wanted to leave a residual force behind but was unable to

achieve it. iraq is unraveling, there are al qaeda training camps in western iraq and afghanistan, and things are unraveling because all we do is say when we are leaving, and obviously there has been no progress whatsoever as was pointed out with iran as they continue their progress towards requiring the nuclear weapons and this debacle in libya and i am sorry that he didn't talk more about that but clearly there is serious situation there and the president didn't lead and they are either not telling the american people the truth about it or they are not -- >> senator, this is louis. even a good job of articulating the differences on policy but it didn't seem like governor romney wanted to do that tonight. he seemed a little bit more hesitant and, you know, just saying he disagreed with him. was their something tactical

going on that we should know about? >> no, i don't know. but i do know that mitt pointed out that we are weaker and not stronger. the president ridiculed a statement about smaller navy since 1914, smaller army since 1940 and smaller air force ever, that can from secretary leon panetta as to what would happen if we did sequestration to this, the president was ridiculing the remark that mitt romney was making, which is a direct quote from the secretary of defense. and i was astonished. i almost fell out of my chair when the president said don't worry sequestration won't happen. we have been digging the president to sit down with us to avoid with his own secretary defense has said would be a devastating blow to our national security. so, he said sequestration will happen. he's not a dictator yet. >> thank you very much, senator. we appreciate you joining us.

it will be an exciting two weeks and will be interesting to see you on the campaign trail. >> we have got things here. one is the top search terms on google during the debate. number one during the debate, horses and bayonets. molly to risk and it's largely because of politico. >> and the word mitt romney used several times right next to molly. islamic exactly. and the politico readers are creative and clever. we've already got a politico reader that submitted what they believe the opening of saturday night live will be this saturday. we believe it could be obama teaching de history class on warfare. now the greeks have very few

guns. [laughter] >> they have one student and will be mitt romney. >> exactly. >> the a4a is it appears the president used three or four times all over the map, that is one of the phrases of the night, and i actually think that might have been pretty effective because he had a list of things where the devin are contradicted himself back and forth, back-and-forth. and so, that i don't know it's interesting to see if the polls pickup that had any impact. >> i could just imagine being in undecided voter and sitting their watching this debate thinking the president seems pretty strong. like he understands what's going on in the world. i feel like he's made progress in afghanistan. and i could see him watching mitt romney going he seems pretty strong. ims confused today as i was 90 minutes after the debate than i was before the debate, and that's where a lot of this stuff is going to come down to who is better organized in the state to respect nobody made a mistake tonight. >> the real advertising at the

end. will come from republicans come candidates making an appreciable difference. we don't know. >> no one can be sure at this moment. we know who is happy and as my mother would say stewing to read the president is going to be stewing. he can't believe that romney is certainly surging in the race. >> will drive him crazy. >> the last line i can't believe i'm losing to this guy. >> david in may and is concerned and i assure my mom is concerned, too. let's use the final minutes we have just to set the stage for how the campaigns will handle the final two weeks of the campaign. obviously barack obama has a surgical approach to the campaign. it will continue to run ads that are tailored to the very specific states if you are in ohio it is an although bailout. if you are in virginia it will be military or about 47%.

if it's florida there going to hit you with medicare. that from the it's just time for change. the economy is bad and i am better. >> where you see the advantages of the bully pulpit we are going to see the advantages of the obama machine putative starting tomorrow he goes off on air force one on an amazing seven state tour where he's hitting every state except north carolina which they still think of as a swing state, and along the way he will be making calls from air force one. he's going to have an early vote when he's in illinois, and the idea is to fire up his people to show action, to act like he's taking a victory lap early. he will have his version of a victory lap, but we are really going to see the obama machine and to conjure a little of that excitement 2008 which we agreed earlier is missing a wall in the campaign.

>> the demographics of this campaign are going to be so delicately kill the british on both sides. neither of them can lose any fundamentals. obama has to have a double digit lead and he has to have 70% of latinos. romney has to have more than 60% of white men and this is where they are concentrating on these little tiny pieces right now that they are greeted try to move around and not get rattled. i can't place and if emphasis on early voting. the obama campaign takes the early voting so seriously. they hit the ground game that is totally devoted to this connect campaign manager says the idea is no r-ks. >> finish line, not where you start three >> if mitt romney loses a key figure going to look at why they didn't unveil the mitt romney that they saw in debate number one because that is a much

different candidate. >> my guess is they had some focus groups that fought he looked too aggressive. >> you didn't need a focus group to tell you that. >> welcome i don't know. i think that they wheeled him in, don't you come seriously? he was so -- you said that in the beginning could he follow instructions because he had to kind of tone down a little bit. >> when he said you're probably right, that is proof of what he was saying. >> quick representing the obama campaign, we wrap up the show, give us your take on why you think the president won or did you think that mitt romney won? >> i think the president absolutely won. she was able to talk about the promises he has made and deliver on in the mitt romney can across as unsteady and unprepared for the discussion the had this evening and i don't think people watching at home will think that he passed the commander in chief

test. >> we talked a lot on the set today about there were a lot of zingers coming. do you think that might not play well with the independent voters? >> i think that this debate was about strength and the american people want someone who's going to protect them and even the playing field for american workers. the president portrayed that this evening. if mitt romney can't take a few light moments holding him accountable for making false statements about his own record and about the fact that is going on in the global issues and how do we expect he is going to go after iran and china? it is a silly accusation by the romney team. >> thank you - peery we appreciate it. we only have a couple minutes left -- we have a couple minutes left in this program. what do you think will be the most important and decisive factor for the final two weeks and then i want louis to answer

the same. >> the most important factor will be whether mitt romney can keep this momentum going. he finally has a narrative that's working for him, and people seem tighter polls in the state. but obama people will tell you the polls may be tighter but we are winning them coming and we're winning like restates mitt romney needs to win seven, so he has a much thinner much smaller beagle to fred. >> i think people's impressions are already cemented into this 4% so i think this is all about to get out the vote now who's going to do better at getting out the vote. >> very attached to this idea of who looks like they are winning? you don't want to be so far ahead that you are complacent but people do want to be with the winner. if we have a situation like in 1996 when dole was far behind, clinton -- there's a lot of those people that wouldn't come out to vote. >> and we don't know have

republicans and progress since 2008 on the turn of operation? the operation through the rn sea in 2008 was all -- awful and they claim to rebuild it in places like ohio where it had a big difference and a state like wisconsin and ohio that had the republican infrastructure. they are going to need to move the dial four or five-point in those states because there's a lot of states where the president is just much better organized and got in early and got and tougher with advertising. the advertising and history will show was much more impressive for obama than romney. that's all we got. the final debate wrapup show. thank you for joining us and we will see you the next campaign.

when i watch c-span i particularly like the congressional hearings. sometimes the of the hearings on pieces of legislation but more importantly the house of representatives and the of the proceedings and speeches. i found the congressional hearing coverage subject matter like veterans affairs or corporations if you read something in the newspaper you get an idea, but you want to go to c-span and that is where in an hour or to you can get the raw data and information. >> next, the debate between

incumbent republican representative alan west and democrat patrick murphy for the newly redrawn 18th district in florida. congressman west currently represent the 22nd district. this debate courtesy of wet tv in west palm beach is 50 minutes. patrick murphy and alan west, the most closely watched congressional contests in the country. tonight, they square off in a one-hour debate to represent stand lucey martin and parts of palm beach county. this is wptv news channel five special presentation. >> moderator: get even by michael williams and good evening to the special one-hour broadcast, the congressional district debate between the candidates this night. the democrat patrick murphy, thank you for being with us, and republican incumbent congressmen west. i will be the moderator this evening for the broadcast over

the next hour as part of our democracy 2012 coverage. joining me to ask questions or two of my colleagues george benet, longtime reporter with the post, and jonathan from the coast newspaper. our format agreed upon by the candidates earlier is simple. each will be asked a question in return and will have one minute to respond. denney 32nd rebuttal of the moderator's discussion and the reporters can ask follow-ups, again, 32nd rebuttal each side. at the end of the broadcast they previously agreed they will have one minute to make closing statements. we will try to get to a lot of topics and dig into the issues for you right now with each of the candidates and through a coin toss the first question will go to mr. west and will come from george bennet ..

all americans, so that is where my focus is. >> your question to mr. murphy. >> given the tone that this race has taken recently, can you look across the table and say that your opponent is not fit to be a member of congress? >> moderator: one minute.

west: we all have different views and part of what makes our congress agreed is it is the people's house. it is a two year term and if the voters are not happy with their representation than they can vote people out or in. at the end of the day visit to the voters it isn't up to me. i got into this race in large part because i think our country is a tipping point. we face serious challenges right now and we need people serious about getting the country back in the right track and i'm going to continue to focus on job creation and protecting the middle class and the promise to our seniors and we will let the voters decide. >> when you talk about the fundamental principles of you want to call extremism but you want to talk about limited government that comes from the declaration of independence to talk about fiscal responsibility your part of the party has taken us from 10.6 trillion over $16 trillion. the top of the free marketplace. when you look at what has been proposed on the democratic party to just raise taxes on the top to income tax brackets not only

is about $85 billion of new revenue does sustain the debt for more than ten days and doesn't even keep the federal affirmative for more than 20 days that is the thing that you have signed on with with the daily call. what we are talking about is stabilizing taxes even a flat tax rate. what we are talking about is not hearing capital gains taxes and dividends going to these exorbitant amounts to the death tax is i've been talking to farmers and ranchers that will kill the industry and agriculture so i've been out there talking to people as well and it's funny you didn't go to north palm beach county chamber of commerce. >> moderator: thank you. we are going to move right now into jobs on the economy since you opened that door let's talk issues. let's talk first about the jobs report. there are improving trends in florida the report out to a palm beach county year-over-year 11.1 to 9.2 still very tough but an improving trend. 11.2 to 9.4, st. lucie county

13.611.7 democrats argue that both in your district and your potential district across florida and across the nation the trend line while still tough are headed in the right direction and that that is a powerful case for continuing for democratic policies over the next four years. your response? i don't think it is about the democratic party's i think that when you look at a lot of the governors and the states where you see unemployment decreasing these are the republican governors and they are in places in job-creating types of policies but you have to be concerned about where we are if you look at the real competition >> moderator: that is a figure that looks at people better underemployed. >> and have been completely drop of the rules so when you look at that computation that is 7%. so are we living the rates because we are not counting certain individuals that is the concern. when you drive up and down the federal highway one for this district you see timoney closed for store fronts.

small-business owners are concerned about two things and i said on the small business committee. and give a true policy and lack of access to capital that will enable them to continue assisting their business. >> moderator: mr. murphy a one minute response. murphy: we have to look at where we were when president obama took office over 800,000 jobs when they were cut in half of the housing market had just fallen out. things are slowly coming around to talk to people all the time and they're upset right here in this district because we haven't come out of this recession quicker. but we are in the path to recovery. we've had over 31 straight months of job growth, the stock market is almost doubled. housing is on the rebound, so things are rebounding. we have to continue down this path and not go back to the failed policies and the bush administration. both of you are talking points from either party. both of you are talking about the issues we've seen we it's the single biggest proposal you

have for you to push in congress or with local businesses to create jobs and congressional district 18. over the rear of the three policies and also access to capital. a small community banks are suffering from the unintended consequences of the dodd-frank. and we have to understand we are not out of the woods for the for closure in the united states of america. st. lucie counties in the top two counties in the state of florida which is the highest. >> moderator: people are listening for solutions what is the solution for your district to create jobs, not about policies that failed or succeeded in the past but specifically what are you doing for district 18 or should i say what you do mr. murphy, 30 seconds? murphy: congressman west is great had planning people and pointing the finger but we have to be serious about solutions and as a small-business owner and cpa i've created jobs and not just talked about it and the first thing i would like to push forward is a piece of legislation that allows

businesses of all sizes 6% of their investment and property plant and equipment in the first year to invest in this country. they are not investing it sweeny to incentivize them to do that. i don't support a.q. e3 or for. that is one of the things we've been talking about is the repatriation of the trillion dollars of capital to come back here in your party is saying no and the other thing is very simple. 37 pieces of legislation. bipartisan pieces of legislation not voted on is sitting on harry reid's decile it's all about job creation and tax and regulatory policy. it's about us though, not my party. i'm not there yet. islamic let's move ahead. you mentioned to be a small business and let me ask about your background coastal construction group is one of the biggest general contractors and

south florida, one of 100 biggest construction companies in america. you're father is the ceo and your family members are on the executive board and your vice president of that how does that make you a small businessman. >> i spent years clinton numerous countries looking for inefficiencies and waste and fraud and i rejoined the family business which is coastal construction and i decided to spark debate to start a small company called coastal's environmental and that was because the bp oil spill you probably remember after it took place it was granted comedown for the's west coast and up the gulf stream so i decided to start a small small stream and put them back in the gulf of mexico. that is a small business and it is affiliated to the larger parent company. >> moderator: congressman, one minute. speed i would tell you i am very concerned you continue to koret presenters of the dow's understand you are not certified or registered in the state of

florida and that means you're kind of misleading people as far as your credentials and that is a big concern that i have to read we have to be truthful with people and let them know that our qualifications. but, when it comes to small business, i sat on the small business committee. every single person that comes up there, we have to give them stability with our tax code. that is what i voted on. as a matter of fact we're talking about flat tax and we cannot continue to look if we raise taxes on the top two brackets, which is something that is a big concern, 33, to 39.6. that will kill small business. will affect 2.1 million small businesses in the united states of america. that is the federation of independent businesses. we have to provide them the certainty and stability and that is what i am fighting to do. that is what they've told us. >> rebuttal of the cpa status, 30 seconds? >> i am a certified public accountant in the state of colorado. i had my license and my pocket. i was endorsed and i am an

active member. i am an active member of the florida institute of cpa and an active member of the american institute of cpas. not only am i a member of those but they have endorsed my candidacy. so, i am a certified public accountant in the state of colorado. i have never had that. >> any follow-up? jonathan, your question to the, this man. >> congressman, you can hand against the federal stimulus package that barack obama has largely touted throughout his tenure. explain what your alternative that it would be to creating jobs if that is not the right method. west: it would mean a would go to the job creators and we would give them the right to the talks was the obligatory policy and enable them to grow. when you look at the almost $1 trillion we spent with the stimulus, first of all unemployment was never supposed to go above and 8%, it was above 8% for 43 straight months. for the more we look at the projections of the stimulus, right now we're supposed to be

somewhere between 5.4 to 5.8 percent unemployment in the united states of america. on your end to support or have said that you support the federal stimulus package outlined why you are in support of that and what you think it is effective. we have to remember where the stimulus was passed and what happened. the chairman said if we didn't

act quickly there would be no economy starting that next week so something dramatic had to happen to get now look i wasn't there when the stimulus was passed. it's not perfect of course but something had to be done. it would have been a tough vote to get our country back on track and prevent it from further collapse and that would have in turn brought down the rest of the world's economies is something had to be done. right now what needs to be done is focus on building roads, bridges and schools right here at home and not half way around the world. we need to expand lending to businesses of all sizes and create an environment that is conducive to job growth and will not a tax policy that predictable for businesses of all sizes and lay out ten to 15 years here's what our tax rates are going to be to be here is what the debt offering by images when the light switches and burdensome on the small businesses and entrepreneurs trying to get started. >> moderator: any follow-up, jonathan? let's move on to the taxes. you talked about flat tax is put this question will be directed to mr. murphy and then

congressman west as we move on to the taxes and the deficit and whether your math or yours really adds up to it at the end of the day speak to the constituents or would-be constituents in your case in district 18 and yours as well and talk about why when this country collects $2.5 trillion in revenue, that is the last fiscal year why do we need more, why do we need to tax anybody more and where do you stand on the expiration of the bush tax cuts for americans? >> christa we don't support raising taxes and i am physically more conservative than many of those in the party. the bush tax cuts should be extended for everybody until they make a million dollars. if you make a million dollars or more -- so you're different than your party and? i would draw a line in a million dollars and that is because of my background. and as a small-business owner because a lot of the small businesses are s-corp and they want to reinvest that money into the company so i believe that

the line should be higher. we need major tax reform and enforcing what happens in the country to divide studied it firsthand, and i see that companies do and what the individuals to and we have too many loopholes and they get away with it. the fact that she'll and ge, companies seeking billions of dollars a year are paying basically zero in taxes, that isn't sustainable. so we need major tax reform in this country. >> moderator:, you talked about a flat tax. spot for people what precisely what you're talking about, and what kind of a net zero impact it would have in terms of revenue right now. speed we have six different tax brackets and as a matter of fact, before washington, d.c. we talked about the past legislation and the house, a bipartisan but it looks good 25% and the two different brackets, the top 25%, that is exactly what we need for our small business owners and then as you lower the tax rates you can reduce the amount of exemptions and deductions and things that nature out there and we want to get that revenue increased.

as you put more money in the business owner's pocket the are going to invest and hire more people goods and services. but then you look at the capitol gains tax and capital gains tax ruling from 15% to 25% that is a killer. the dividend's tax is going from 15% to 43.4%. many seniors down here live off of those dividends. that is another killer. but then the death tax goes from 35% to 55% tax bracket. the minimum exemption drops. swain to get rid of the death tax and we have only to look at getting rid of the dividend tax to keep the capitol gains tax where it is and it can work but we need to allow the repatriation of the capitol. >> moderator: thank you to read if you get rid of all the taxes, how does the math at of and at what point do you say we need to have a mixture between revenue cuts with some tax increases as many economists argue with the love of what we don't have to have? west: with the serious i am not going to go to the american people and talk about raising

taxes and revenues until we get our act together in washington, d.c.. 200 to $300 billion of the kaput of programs in washington, d.c. and salt senator tom coburn's books and we are doing. we are wasting money. and it is not just about fighting the war because there was borrowed money on top of that so it shouldn't even count as revenue coming in many to look at those agencies that are not functioning properly. we need to consolidate. we need to go back and look at since the 1970's the largest federal government. >> moderator:, come thank you. mr. murphy? murphy, west sign on to the plan, grover norquist said he would never raise taxes, ever. every congressman and the world said if you're going to be series of reducing our long-term debt is rated it takes three pieces. number one we have to reduce spending in the country and i am all for it. member to we have to increase revenue. go back to the clinton era tax rates making a million dollars or more

and we have to make tough decisions. the affluent don't mind paying in more if they're getting something out. >> on the other side of the break we'll continue the

discussion about the economy, the taxes and whether the math adds up. we'll have a look at the numbers. on the into side of the break. stay with us. >> welcome back to the coination of our one-hour primetime live debate of district 18. with us today, congressman allen west and his challenger for the new district here, democrat, patrick murphy, and his first run for office. thank you for being with us. we'll continue the broad topic of deficit. >> we left arch everybody hanging with the testify deficit. >> the deficit was

$1.1 trillion, so if you're not going raise taxes, what are some things you can cut to get anywhere close to erasing a $1.1 trillion deficit. >> the deficit was supposed to be cut in half so we should be 230 billion so we have had 1.29, 1.3, 1.1. we have to look at certain agencied that were created and aren't meeting their original intent. you look at the department of energy that was created when i was a teenager. and it was to make the united states of america energy independent. so what has happened with the department of energy over the past 37 years? we look at the expansion of the government into education. when we separated the department of education out of health, education and welfare. what happened the standard of education? we're 25th. yet we have spent more and more money at the department of education level, the federal government level, money that

could have been used better in our local levels. so i think we have to go surgically and start looking at the wasteful programs, look at that book from senator tomko- -- tom coburn, and look at the budget. >> murmur any. >> the gao had a study that found 33 agencies that do the same thing. we need to streamline these agencies. seven of those agencies were focused on business and trade so let's bring these agencies -- streamline them. we need to go after the waste, fraud and abuse. we've already attacked medicare fraud and abuse. tens of billions of dollars. we need to do this in all government agencies. my background is as a cpa, i spent years going into numerous fortune 500 companies looking for inefficiencies and make government agencies more efficient. so i will use my background to find the waste.

>> followup? >> give me an idea of any numbers? the department of energy? >> close to $85 billion. a guy never been in politics before, and his first three months i found three wasteful programs in the department of defense project. >> combined savings? >> combined savings 300 some odd million over the course of ten years, but if every single member of the house of representatives and their committee of jurisdiction was looking for wasteful program can, think what that does? maude -- >> moderator: mr. murphy. >> you need to go through the tax holes and loopholes. i'm not saying they're breaking the law but we need to make it a more even and more fair playing field for all companies. >> moderator: i want to just take a quick break with my producers' discretion.

we're going to get to jonathan, i think it's important because we hear this from candidates, republicans and democrats, we're we're going to find quote-unquote wasteful spending. i want to show you this chart. the viewers can see it at home. the u.s. national debt right now, $16 trillion, and counting. also, as you continue to look at that, you look at 3.5 trillion in spending this last fiscal year. a trillion dollars deficit. you all talk about programs you can cut but it's clear the three biggest drivers of the debt are medicare, 756 billion. social security at nearly 800 billion. and defense, including the wars that we're fighting, at 662 billion. six out of ten federal dollars. what are the tough choices you're willing to make when it comes to prioritizes cuts and benefits or cuts in defense. real serious cuts. it's clear that's the only three

areas that you can make substantive differences and the tea party put you in office to make the tough choices. so with these three specifically, where do you cut first, defense, medicare, social security? >> first of all, let me correct you on something. the 662 billion you actually included the overseas contingency operation -- >> moderator: the wars. >> now that we're not in iraq -- you're looking at a guy who voted for budget control, something my opponent would not support. that cut the defense budget by $487 billion over ten years. it's the sequestration i'm against. now, 62% of the budget of the united states of america is medicare and social security. aarp is saying, stop with the pail -- payroll tax cut gimmicks. we have to start looking how to reform, protect, and preserve

programs like medicare, for our future seniors and also, what we're glowing to do to make sure it's sustainable. >> the same question to you, mr. murphy. you saw the numbers. any real serious discussion has to look at programs and serious cuts. so if you had to prioritize, where, defense, medicare, social security, if you're serious? >> you can't look at these three in a vacuum. >> federal dollars. >> it's a definite problem and that's in large part why i went to get to congress. i think i can help out. and when you look at it, you can't look at it in a vacuum, each individual department needs to be look at to find these inefficiencies and wastes. i read a report that says congress is continuing to approve spending for our military that our generals on the ground do not want. so i support everything in the defense budget that is going to keep our braid men and women abroad safe. but when congress is continuing

to approve programs that generals don't want, that doesn't make sense. so we need to look at all three departments. medicare, we have gone after waste and fraud. we have to continue cracking down and finding more examples of this. >> moderator: let me ask a followup. people are going to be saying, same old same old. they don't want to say the big tough cuts to make. if if it was your household budget, you would look at the biggest items and make major cuts. neither one of you said, medicare, social security, defense. if you had to dtc, which of those three do you start cutting first? >> i would start cutting on defense. i found it when i found the wasteful programs. i cut 48 billion over the next seven years. if you want to talk about balanced approach, talk about the mandatory spending side, which is 62% and that's where

you have to have the courage to do something about that. medicare and medicaid and social security. so i think when you look at the constitution, our responsibility is to provide for the common defense. we can do it a lot smarter. >> 30 seconds and then back to jonathan, and a good point to segway into medicare and healthcare. >> it's a balanced approach and we need people who are serious, people willing to reach across the aisle and fine someie compromise. president obama and john boehner, speaker of the house, came to the table and almost had a grand bargain but the tea pert and people like allen west wouldn't let boehner make a deal. every was on at the table but the tea party wouldn't let it happen. now we have see sequestration. looming cults at the end of the year that our economy cannot sustain. it's because of the extremism that we couldn't reach those compromises. >> the see sequestration what probe's -- president president s

idea. >> you voted for it. >> and guess what? i also brought legislation to the house floor to stave off the sequestration for a year or two years. i'm taking action. >> we're talking about pending cuts and social programs, before the end of the year, jonathan, good point to hop off to medicare and health care. jonathan, your question, i believe, goes to mr. murphy for one minute. insure...

murphy: sure, that is the kaiser family foundation study that you are referring to that said that under the plan, 60% of seniors are going to face cost increases. so, this is something that needs to be addressed when people are looking at the plan and what happened here. under the ryan plan that my opponent voted for place and said the would-be suicide to impose we ended medicare as we know it and that is in the way forward. we need to reach across the aisle, do best to ensure that medication is there for generations to come. i was about two weeks ago talking to seniors. you could see in the fear in their eyes rate medicare was going to be taken from them and definitely their kids and grandkids and we can't let it happen so we need real solutions under the affordable care act. the found inefficiencies and waste and fraud coming and they put that money. they'd taken it out, taken it away from insurance company executives, away from the pharmaceuticals and give it back to seniors in the form of

preventive treatments and closing the doughnut hole and this is what we need to do to sort of bring it down the long term cost curve the driving the health care cost through the roof. >> moderator: mr. murphy would you like, west to answer that question? west: sure first we have to understand when you look at this holding about ending medicare as we know it, that was already debunked as the poll of the fact and accuracy of the year and that came out if you hadn't paid attention to the actuaries and the trustees and in 2024. social security and nine years after that. so they need to step and do something in the face of this continuing to do it means devotee would have medicare 12 years from now on. and they wyden already support as well. it's something that came from bill clinton and his administration, the index to word and come provides the same type of health care plans that we are able to select as a government employee. if you are making less, you get

more. if you are more sick you get more but what you see with the act, think about the mandate that just came down to weeks ago. seniors at the return back to a hospital within 30 days of a visit. >> moderator: first we are going to stay on the topic of mcgeorge and begin the cycle with you with congressmen west. >> sticking on medicare, when you ran two years ago. for medicare you've been very critical of that. but when you voted for the ryan plan that also includes the 716 billion in savings. what is the difference between the 716 billion that you've criticized and voted for west: i haven't cut seven and $16 billion from medicare. what i voted against orloff of

onerous policies, 3% withholding tax, medical loss ratio and when you look at the affordable care act, it's very simple. it is a tax law. there are 20 new taxes in the affordable care act and now we find out the individual mandate is now a tax, so you have capitals on capital gains and dividends and realistic transaction tax, and medical device tax, health savings accounts which are originally created for people to be able to, you know, earmark a certain amount of their income and not be taxed is taxed when you get with the new taxes 159 government agencies and bureaucracies and you also get 16,000 agents that are going to be monitored electronic medical records. that is not how we repair health care and as you well know, i wrote a little op-ed piece for the palm beach post talking about free-market solutions to the health care to restore and get it back on track. one of those things come toward reform. talk to any doctor down here, catastrophic litigations. >> moderator: one minute and then a possible follow-up. murphy, you are not being honest

with the voters when you voted for the ryan plan you would to take the $716 billion, so -- you said you walk in the commercial i voted to remove $716 billion. it says voted. the fact is i've never been in comma's. i never made this vote so let's be clear. the $716 billion is future savings under the democratic version. what they did is out waste and efficiency and fraud. they found overpayments to insurance companies that they are now getting back to seniors. i just said it through preventive treatments, screenings and by closing the doughnut hole for seniors. seniors love this. the differences the $716 billion in your plan, which you voted for and paul ryan salles the 716 so he included it in his plan. the differences the $716 billion goes to getting tax breaks to millionaires and billionaires and giving insurance company's executive bonuses and high salaries, so there is a difference when it comes to the

716 billion. west: the affordable care it would be 940 billion is 9.7 trillion. the insurance premiums were told there wouldn't be an increase. would you talk to the palm beach society would be the independent insurance agencies with what you're talking about would be driven out of business. so you are forcing more business to larger the insurance companies. they are about to get hit with $300 million of cuts. that's not because they are inefficient. >> moderator: we will have to give a 32nd response and then go to break. west: they don't like the plan and they didn't endorse it so let's talk about the seniors that are being affected here. they've added eight years of life to medicare. it's a step in the right direction, and look, we have to make the steps we can and make these baby steps and to improve it and that is what the conversation can be.

the affordable character isn't perfect, no legislation that comes all of washington is perfects of its focus on how to improve it going forward. >> moderator: a conversation the will continue on the other side of the break. please continue on the congressional debate. back now with our congressional debate from district 18 covering parts of palm beach county and st. lucie county between, chris van hollen west and patrick murphy the democrat. jonathan, your question for the congressman. >> congressman, the newest paul ryan plan has an option to continue in a normal medicare plan to expand as possible given that we are talking about how much cost you're associating with this program that we need to cut. west: if you allow people the options to go into whether they want to have their own health insurance plan that they will go where they will go into the medicare plan when i can

congressman, guess what, i had options and health care program that i want to have and i chose blue cross blue shield and i am the one that is paying for that and i think that the option that we ought to be allowed to present. and it's also like we said, indexed to work in come so if you are a high wage earner you want me to get the same amount of money as someone that is a lower wage earner. so i think that in the long run, what we are talking about is what everyone is saying to read all of this about fairness and all of this about those that are higher wage earners not getting the same as others. another thing that we ought to look at is raising the cap on social security. raising the age as well from 65. there are some very good proposals simpson-bowles came up with. >> moderator: emineth response, mr. murphy. murphy: inspected the same. under the ryan plan that congress and west voted for we and medicare as we know it. it is a serious issue.

west: the more you see it doesn't make it true. murphy: i talked to seniors every day and they are worried. i see the fear in their eyes. i wouldn't support this. we need to make tough decisions, but we need to continue to find ways to make these programs more efficient. and i believe that when you give it to the private sector, i don't believe this is the fact that there is a profit incentive. how can the be as competitive and when you look at medicare -- not for small businesses if not for businesses but when it comes to medicare and getting the benefits to individuals in this country, they deserve the best treatment. they don't need someone is coming off a profit incentive and salaries. right now under medicare when you compare it to some private insurance companies, their costs are way lower than the private insurance companies. so, what we have is working but we need to make it more efficient and continue improving the system we have. >> moderator: brief follow-up who can make it more efficient to make it private business or -- speed it's part of the free-market. that's what made this country

what it is in the to hundred 36 years. and, you know, when you talk about seniors being afraid one of the main reasons they are afraid is there are doctors that are dropping them off medicare coverage. because of the reimbursement rates for getting cut and cut and cut. that is a big concern of our seniors. it's about the beneficiaries and those waiting to get these treatments and i think really this conversation should be focused on how we can look for and in perfect and a proposal it would like to put forward is a loving of government to begin negotiating in a large pharmaceutical companies just like the va dose with success and let them negotiate to bring down the costs and also for the pay of performance out just be for individual treatments this will help bring down long-term cost curves and when it comes to health care is all but costs and the rising unsustainable rate right now and we have to bring down the costs. >> moderator: which begs the question how we afford it. we won't settle within this hour and move on to some other issues

for people who know that more importantly for perhaps the constituents who don't outline your views on abortion and gay rights. mr. murphy first. murphy: i support a woman's right to choose. this is where my opponent and i are on opposite ends of the spectrum. congressman west said it planned parenthood women are nearing the men and bring in the back country to the point of weakness. i couldn't disagree more on that statement. congressman west voted to defund the preventive treatment, things like mammograms, co-sponsored the controversy a bill to redefine. also for the personhood amendment. this would make all abortions illegal even the case of rape or incest. i do not support that i support a woman's right to choose and when it comes to managing quote the line there and i support marriage equality. >> moderator: congressman? murphy: i have two daughters and this is the standard in the household we don't support abortion as a means of birth control and i've always said in

my what set of record as far as rape, incest and the health of the mother i do not support partial birth abortion and i do not support what president obama supports and will still be killed and that is to go back to his records as a state senator. when we talk about planned parenthood i know if you throw this out, planned parenthood is a billion dollar not-for-profit company that has been making a profit, the two entered $52 million the federal government says to planned parenthood, i think the priority that could go to a better place. one of the places i think it should go to is to helping us with the comprehensive everglades restoration project, helping us with dredging, helping us to make sure that our waterways and our water quality is clean. that is where we should be. >> moderator: for the second response murphy: planned parenthood treats all sorts of women. women in need of these primitive treatment. that is where the money is going so i'm not going to take away that money for these treatments and it's interesting how you have slid environmental issues

and to that answer when you voted to allow -- you voted to allow the oil drilling in the everglades that couldn't be more out of touch than this particular district. i have the vote , from this particular -- >> moderator: let him finish and then you can get a response. murphy: so much of our economy here locally is based on our environment and there's a direct correlation other this tourism, real estate, these areas are -- west: michele bachman cambone and floated the idea and i was all over her like a black eye on mp3. perhaps you could call secretaries sebelius. they cannot today and said planned parenthood is not doing mammograms. >> moderator: we have to move on to the final question to give you time for close to read both of you have spent every money

and outside groups more than $300 million on this. do you support any kind of legislation would limit the influence of outside groups and what does that necessary? west: first of all that has to be back in the supreme court. the supreme court already made that decision. if you look at our record, our record shows an incredible amount almost 95% from individual donors and the average is not 98, $99. i can't help for people to donate to me. and the palestine groups, there are some people but have about $5 million in the tax against me. you know, so be it. i know that my opponents that even created a pact specifically just for him, and i was putting -- i don't have a gold tooth as you can see and i don't like punching one in. but i think that that needs to be going back and argued before the supreme court. >> moderator: one minute mr. murphy's. murphy: absolutely we need major campaign finance reform in this country.

and coming from the private sector campaigning now seeing what is happening to the country because of the money and politics, it is absolutely gross. i am completely against it and i want campaign finance reform and starts with a constitutional amendment to overturn citizens denied it read, west has a $1 million to pact and this isn't just talk and facts here that we are talking about. there's a $1 million super pak supporting congress and west. the person behind this is a pharmaceutical drug company owner. now you wonder why maybe he doesn't want to let the government negotiate with the company's is all about where your priorities are and where the money is coming from. west: let me say this if you go back and look at the record of where president obama was negotiating the companies with the affordable care act. >> moderator: george, a follow-up. >> and citizens united what with the shape of that legislation become and both of you have felsite packs that our support it gives the 730 seconds. >> what legislation our constitutional amendment would you support?

murphy: i don't support it at all. i think it is gross what is happening in the country. individuals and corporations can give unlimited amounts of money to the campaigns isn't right. that is and what our country is about. >> moderator: a brief response? west: that should be argued in the supreme court, and that is not something that i think we should be taking up in the legislation. there are much more important topics we need to be focused on like the fiscal cliff. >> moderator: very briefly as we get ready to close. a simple answer. everybody has seen how nasty the cantinas. do you apologize for the campaign ads and do you do so to congressmen west in the first year as you look at each other in the eye? west: i don't know what we are talking about. no one came out and said anything about the last cycle when - social security number was put out in the peace. george asked me a question about i may be the only black male -- >> moderator: apology there. do you apologize for the nastiness? murphy: they are tired of the

negativity. with my campaign all of our ads are accurate. we don't have to spend any -- all of my abs out of my campaign are factual whether it is votes for quotes. >> moderator: on that non-apology note from both sides we will go to closing statements now first, west. west: it's free simple. i'm proud of the record reestablished in washington, d.c. but when i look and study the declaration of independence and constitution of the united states of america our country was established on the limited government in the fiscal responsibility. individual sovereignty. they thrive in the free-market and the national defence and that has been the essence of what i've done being a member of the armed services committee. i am kind of upset that we didn't get a chance to talk about a foreign policy on the national security standing that we see which is very threatening. we didn't talk about our belief and how we improve our military and insure we take care of our veterans but that is my commitment to the country, the

commitment that i've done for 22 years and a uniform commitment that i take very serious. we will have the right type of reform to make sure this country has a better and a brighter future. >> moderator: congressman allen west. mr. murphy? murphy: thank you come everybody and, this man. we need a representative that is focused on job creation, not headlines. i believe my that run as a cpa and small business owner is what we need to put the country back on track. i'm going to focus on protecting the promise to the seniors at strengthening the powers of the middle class. this includes social security, medicare and medicaid and not demonizing them and attempting to privatize them. my opponent called 80 members of commerce communists, voted to end medicare as we know it and eliminate 10 million pell grants from our students and supported legislation that would take away a woman's right to choose. palm beach post said she is everything that is wrong with congress. the fact is i am a former republican. i got tired of the extremism

that is gridlock in the country. i'm a moderate and have a background to get our country back on track. not only do we need to get to work, we need to work together. >> moderator: congressman alan west and murphy we thank you both for being here and george benet with the palm beach post and jonathan, newspaper. most we've thank you. congressman west brought up an interesting point we can only begin to scratch the surface in this hourlong debate. the only televised debate that the two candidates agreed to and we do monday night would be a huge foreign policy only debate and we suspect the largely support the respective candidates, president barack obama and mitt romney will cover the ground there and elected to move on without that but we hope that we have your appetite to learn more about the candidates before each election the and on behalf of the ready here at wptv mine and michael williams wishing you and your best thank you for taking the time to join us and good night.

up next the missouri senate

debate between democratic senator claire mccaskill and republican challenger congressman todd akin. cook political report rates this as a likely democratic. this debate courtesy of ksdk in st. louis is just under an hour. >> moderator: good evening and welcome to the chamber u.s. senate debate. my name is mike from ksdk newschannel4 life and i will be the moderator for this evening. first, we need to speak for the sponsor of posh blackwell and media sponsors, ksdk news channel five, and those public radio and st. louis business journal. we a televised and broadcast live through the ifill yet across missouri. ksa to be and k. why tv in

springfield and komu and st. louis public radio is doing the same. the broadcast is also being streamed live on ksdk dhaka, and stlpublicradio.org. we also must take part in the social media. on twitter we are mosen. our appreciation to the city of clinton police as well as the school district roasting tonight's event. before we begin i would like to review the debate format. each candidate will give a three minute opening statement and a three minute closing statement. next the panel of media sponsors, chamber and school district representative will ask questions of the candidates. both candidates will respond to the same question and have one and a half minutes to do so. rebuttals will be at the discretion of the moderator and we will last 45 seconds to read after that we will take questions from the audience who

receive an index card as the entered the auditorium this morning and they asked to print their questions out and i will post the questions as long as time permits. let me introduce the official timekeeper, rose assistant vice chancellor of government and community relations of washington university. rose, please hit the green light read this indicates the time has officially begun for a candidate to respond. win 30 seconds remain, both of the green and the yellow light will appear and win ten seconds remained, the yellow light will come on and when time is up there will be a red light and we will have to cut the speaker off. the audience here mendenhall has agreed to be polite and attentive, no cheering or booing or outburst of any sort we will set aside the agreement just this once. ladies and gentlemen on behalf of the clinton chamber of commerce and event sponsors please welcome senator claire mccaskill and commerce and tom

akin. [applause] now a coin toss was held last week to decide who would make the first opening statement. having won the coin costs tosk senator mccaskill you have three minutes to deliver your opening statement. mccaskill: thank you very much and the sponsors, congressman akin for being here. i know the audience is not supposed to make any noise is that if people could hold up fingers for the cardinals scored during the debate would be great. if you are watching at home, having tasted the understand completely. it's great to be here and to have a debate about important issues that misery faces. i went to washington, d.c. as an auditor and prosecutor to solve problems from the families and

hold the government accountable to taxpayers. i knew that it would take a couple of things. it would take some hard work. dewitt take compromise and would take a willingness to work across the aisle with my republican colleagues so i rolled up my sleeves. first, your marks. i have no idea how ugly the umar process maza until i got there. a fever factory, lobbyists and campaign donations. i said i'm not going to play this game. we should spend public money based on merit, not based on who you know were who you are helping out. so, i never asked for any remark and i went to work with republicans senators mccain and demint and others across the majority of the party and the band earmarks. i am proud of that work. congressman akin has requested hundreds of earmarks and until very recently was a proud defender of the earmark processed saying it was a

constitutional principle. then there was contract and. as a prosecutor, i looked at the government contracting the was going on and i looked a lot happening in iraq and afghanistan with abusive wasteful contract, once again working with both democrats and republicans. we were able to move across the government and relief for some of the bureaucracies that we're wasting your money through wasteful contracting practices. and then senator jeff sessions a couple of years ago, more than a couple of years ago came to me very conservative republican senator from alabama and said you know, you seem like the kind of democrat that would work with me on putting a cap to federal spending. and i said i am that kind of democrat and to get even though my party's leadership fought with the we worked together to put a cap on federal spending and the legislation made a difference. a strong bipartisan record is much different than a congressman akin's record. congressman akin has been one of a handful of congressmen voting against some very mainstream programs, a very extreme record.

he wants to privatize medicare, abolish the minimum wage. he wants to say that rape victims cannot get contraception and on an emergency basis. he wants to say we have no more student loans and the federal system. he wants to impact and privatize social security. and he even says that the boss has the right to discriminate against you if you are a woman. he says that is freedom and i say that is unfair. moderate versus conservative, moderate forces extreme i think there is a very good choice for misery to make. >> moderator: thank you, senator. congressman akin you have three minutes for your opening statement akin: thank you for making the debate possible. i'm an engineer served as an army officer worked for ibm where and at my wife of 37 years. we have been blessed with six children, eight grandchildren. three of my children with the naval academy and became marines

and one is in the mediterranean serving tonight. i'm also blessed tonight to have my parents that are here with us. that is 91 and served with patton in world war ii and my mother, we talked her into cooking dinner for us on sunday nights. i think that we are all here because we want an america with a bright and cheerful hope for the future. but that good future has to come with right choices and wise decisions. unfortunately, claire mccaskill and barack obama haven't given such a future. claire mccaskill was the first to endorse barack obama and she was the strong right hand passing legislation voting with him 98% of the time. what exactly does that record look like? first on the area of jobs instead of the promises from the $787 billion stimulus bill, we have 43 months of the worst

unemployment since the great depression. deficits. we were promised that the deficit would be cut in half and the have been tripled. we are off by a factor of six. energy, the obama mccaskill record, the funding of solyndra, the epa given the power to shut down the coal industry and of course stopping drilling on the keystone pipeline and the gasoline prices have doubled. health care is even worse. 71% of those in misery foot against the government takeover of health care, and claire mccaskill voted to pass it. there is a reason for this record of failure and that is because obama and mccaskill have a deep and abiding faith big government is the solution to every problem and that's why they couldn't fulfill their record. now, clare has gone to washington, d.c. and she's brought red tape and taxes and all kinds of bureaucracy and

executive orders and she doesn't understand that these big government solutions to out freedom. now, what i would suggest is that you could bring me to washington, d.c. ennis dennett so that we could take the misery to the, every common sense back to d.c. without a lot of bureaucracy. cut down the taxes and the red tape in the bureaucracy and build an american dream, build the american family once again to be strong and restore a bright hope for our future. thank you very much. i look forward to joining you in the rest of the debate. ..

akin: >> we're facing quite a number of problems. first there's the problem of the sequestration. another 10% cut to defense. the largest tax increase in the history of the country, and i think the solution has to be done in a couple things. first you have to reduce the size of the federal government, and the second think is get the private sector going, you can't do it with just doing one or the

other. the best way to get the private sector going -- there's two steps. the first thing there is to get the red tape under control. they're driving our business efficiency down and pulling people and driving jobs overseas. the second thing is, we've got high unemployment, and yet we've got the highest corporate tax rate in the world. that doesn't make sense. so we need to reduce the corporate tax rate. and so a combination of those things. reduce of size of the federal government spending and then got to take care of the red tape and reduce the taxes. you put that together and you got a hope over a period of time of getting the budget under control. >> moderator: congressman, thank you. senator mccaskill, your response. mccaskill: >> i've been part of the senate, democrats and republicans, working together to hammer out other compromise. there are lot of provisions that have been quote-unquote scored

by the congressional budget office. we need to get to a $45 trillion reduction in our long-term debt over the next ten years, and the simpson-bowles bill had a lot of items -- the moderates and there's some democrats democrats and some republicans and that the hope for fixes the problem. the hope is in the middle where we would take a balanced approach. i am willing to compromise and lower the corporate rate because of think it would be importance as a global competitor. but we have to have some revenue for the deficit. not just cutting the size of government. i'm for that improve talked about that in my opening. also, cutting the spending in government. maybe doing some means testing. we don't need to buy donald trump prescription drugs. this is how we get to the compromise.

we're not going to get by being at the opposite end of the rooms and shouting at each other. we can do it through bipartisan work, and we can do it through the moderate middle. >> moderator: thank you. $> senator, what will the up your pick up your dry cleaning until you get your next check. the preoccupation what if the press is saying and the horse race, i want to get to work and help missouri. i want to make sure we have

student loans and make sure we have social security and medicare. i want to make sure that people can rely on minimum wage. i want to make sure that the work place is fair. and so i am honestly not that concerned. i will be honest with you, if lose this race, i'll hate it because i want our government to reflect our values. i want our government to reflect our best hopes and dreams, and i think congressman akin's view is very narrow and leaves a lot of people out. so i'd be sad but i always trust the voters and respect whatever decision they make but i could care less about the national press. >> moderator: congressman. same question. akin: i've had a chance to travel for 18 months around the state of missouri, and i have a pretty good sense where people are. if you had any question of where we were bat government takeover

of healthcare, called obama: karr. people have voted on that. and you look at the idea that we need to have jobs and we have a record of 43 months of the worst drop record since the great depression. people care about the second amendment and the constitution in the state of missouri. my record is clear in that. i support the second amendment. i support the constitution. i didn't support the president bombing libya without constitutional authorization, and it seems to me, as i've had a chance to travel, my views are very much in synch with the voters of the state, and i have opposed the failed record and the failed policies which have given us the unemployment, the lack of jobs, and the other miscellaneous problems such as gasoline prices doubling. so i think my views are consistent with the people of missouri, and i believe they will elect me to the u.s.

congress. >> moderator: senator, would you like a rebuttal? mccaskill: i don't think so. >> moderator: chris mcdaniel will now ask the next question to congressman akin who will have 1-1/2 minutes to respond. >> the federal wind production tax credit has been in place for 20 years but set to expire at the end of this year. some groups estimate that up to 2,000 missouri jobs are supported by the credit. will you vote to renew and it what role do you see for wind and other renewable energy in the economy. >> the approach on energy is to have an energy policy improve think the energy sources should compete with each other, and the approach that we've been taking obviously doesn't work. and in terms of wind, i'm happy with it to compete with solar, cells, coal, oil, gas, nuclear, and let the different source office energy work on their own.

now, the fact is that we really haven't been developing energy the way we should. if you think about america, it's pretty amazing. we have an unlimited almost supply of coal, natural gas and oil, and while we're sitting on all of these resources in america, yet we haven't developed them. why? the reason is because of big government. all kinds of rules and regulations that don't allow us to do the things we should be doing and what's the cost? our gasoline prices have doubled. if we continue with the policy to shut down the coal industry has president barack obama has said he will good, and claire mccaskill voted to give them the power to regulate carbon, then our electric price goes up. so what we have to do is take the blessings we have in america, use it wisely, and allow different forms of energy to compete with each other and let the citizens make the choices, what kind and where they want to get their energy. >> moderator: senator

mccaskill. mccaskill: congressman akin and i have a disagreement. he does not believe we should be encouraging any kind of alternative energy. on the other hand, ironically, he's perfectly willing to do whatever it takes to protect bill oil subsidies, and all of the goodies that get at the expense of northwestern taxpayer. keep in mind the big oil are the most profitable corporations in the history of the planet. the book $132 billion in profit a year and we're giving them between four and ten billion a year. not the small, independent guys. the big guys. we have tried time and time again to say, let's stop giving big oil corporate welfare at the expense of the american taxpayer. and everytime the republicans keep blocking it. he will not support home-grown energy with subsidies, but he'll do anything to protect big oil. i have it the other way around improve think we need to be supporting alternative energy,

including wind, solar. we need all of it. i support the keystone pipeline. different than president obama. i support fracking as long as we're doing it safely. i support wind, solar, all of that. i don't support continuing to give taxpayer handouts to big oil. >> moderator: congressman, would you like a rebuttal? akin: i would like a rebuttal. i think it's interesting that claire talks about being a moderate and the fact that she is worried about the spending and the taxes and all, and yet i believe she supported $6.9 billion -- trillion dollars worth of deficit spending, and she calls herself a moderate. i guess the thing that comes to my mind is how much do you have to spend in deficit spending to become a liberal? >> moderator: senator? mccaskill: i will just say this. congressman akin has spent a lot of time talking about stimulus and other things he says is

wasteful. i if you look at the record, the interesting thing is congressman akin is only opposed to stimulus if there's a democrat in the white house, because many times, over $400 billion in stimulus he voted for when president bush bush was president. december 20, 2001, 150 bill package, 2002, 108 bill. february 7, 2008, 145 billion. and a lot of deficit spending. during the bush years that's when they blew the clinton surplus, and kingman akin was right there asking for earmarks. >> moderator: next joan berkman representing the clayton chamber, will ask her question to senator mccaskill. >> senator mccaskill the chamber represents a large number of small businesses who have had to make difficult decisions like cutting their labor force, holding and

reducing their salaries and cutting back on expenses during the recent economic crisis. it's clear that most governmental organizations did not make these same decisions. evidenced by a growing federal deficit and several states and communities are now bankrupt. do you have a real plan to encourage all government, especially the federal government, to cut back on expenses? mccaskill: we have actually shed a lot of public sector jobs through this very difficult economic time. both local and state. and finally, we're beginning to shed federal jobs. it's not just federal employees we have to shed. if we just put an artificial lid on employee, the government might do what they did during the bush uses and that is begin to contract everything. not just buying stuff but buying services. so, that's why i supported a federal cap on spending. that's why i am number 50. i have worked to bring down federal spending.

it's very, very important. i also think it's important to fight regulations for small businesses and cut taxes for small businesses, and i've done both of those. in fact the st. louis home builds came to me and said, they're going to put a new rule on us, right when our businesses are in the tank in the housing crisis. can you help us with this regulation they're proposing? i went to work, and we stopped it. they wanted an unreasonable safety requirement of our home builders during this most economic -- difficult time in the economy for them. so, common sense in terms of making sure regulations don't go into place that go too far, keeping protections on small businesses for tax cuts, and continuing to have the discipline to spend less money in the federal government. >> moderator: congressman akin, please responsible. akin: i understand what it's like for small businesses because they're coming down to my office in droves as a congressman, and each particular group of different businesses have the same story.

the only thing that changes is the particular federal agencies that are giving them such a hard time. and everybody has the same story. over the last number of years they say it feels to us as though the federal government is trying to destroy us. they're our enemies. it's not just a matter of safety rules. it's the inspectors that come and no matter what you do they're going to find more things wrong with you, to the point that businesses are telling me they're intentionally leave something things for the inspectors to find because they know they're going to get hit with a fine no matter what. and so we have created an environment that is toxic for business. we have radical deficit spending. we have a federal government out of control with the amount of red tape and things they're imposing on businesses, and then a high, high tax rate. and we wonder why we don't have any jobs, why the jobs are being chased overseas.

the talk is fine. but the fact of the matter is, the unemployment and the deficit and the whole situation with the economy, speakses for itself. it's not working, and gig government is not the solution. >> moderator: thank you, congressman. our next question will be posed by marry death mcmahan of clayton high school. please ask your question tokingman akin. >> congressman akin, when you speck about your commitment to improving public school education in missouri, especially given the educational choices you have made for your own children. i am referring to congressman akin's decision to home-school his children and senator mccaskill's decision to send at least one of her children to private catholic schools. akin: thank you for the question. all of us understand that education is absolutely critical. one of the things we have in

america is freedom and people can choose to educate they way they want. one of the things i have done that not another congressman in the state of missouri was willing to do was to vote no on "no child left behind." it's not that i want to leave children behind. it's just i don't have abiding faith in big government to fix problems in education. so, even though it was my president that offered the bill, i voted no because i don't think big bureaucrats generating red tape in washington, dc help our schools. and so i was willing to stand on abiosis of principle that education needs to be local. due know what makes the best education? it's when you have a mom and dad that love their kid and have a high priority on education, and with that kind of formula, education can work well for people. so i've always supported the freedom for people to choose the kind of education they want, about i don't believe that the

answers to fixing our schools in missouri can be helped in any way by the large bureaucracy of federal government. so i've even encouraged we can say save a lot of money and get rid of the educational bureaucracy because it didn't contribute to our education. >> moderator: your response. mccaskill: i'm so grateful to my public education. all threw school and undergraduate and law school, proud graduate of the university of mississippi, and allowed know be who i am today and for our country, allows to us be the beacon on the hill. the countries of the world look to our country for our emphasis on public education and higher education. congressman akin has been very clear. he wants the federal government completely out of education. no more department of education. no more school lunch program. and even harder to understand, do away with pel grants, with

all federally backed student loans. he says private banks should do it. i don't know very many private banks that loan money to a 17-year-old that has no money. 300,000 young people in missouri are attending college because a federally backed student loan or pel grant is helping them. that was me. i had a federally backed student loan. i couldn't have gotten through law school without it. i had to wait tables but i paid back every dime, and most young people do we have to leave the doorway of opportunity open. it is not the third stage of cancer. the federal government is involved -- involvement in public education is important for our country. this is not about bureaucracy. it's about whether or not the middle class survives. it's a huge difference between congressman akin and me. ache. >> moderator: you have 45 suns for rebuttal. akin: this is a great illustration of the principle i

was talking about. i talk about because of the fact we're a trillion and a half overspending in federal government, a massive amount, maybe we need to shrink the federal government. so i suggested maybe the school lunch program could be shifted to the state. i don't know if the lunches taste as good as the state does it, but claire mccaskill seems to think this is a crisis if you don't have everything done by the federal government. a year or two ago there were student loans made by private lending institutions. obamacare changed all of that. you have to be against college and student loans to suggest we don't have the federal government doing all of that for us? i think not. if you -- >> moderator: you're out of time. senator? mccaskill: i want to clarify this. what happened with the private lending for student loans? the private banks were not assuming the risk for the student loans. they were just the meddle man administering the loans 'the risk for the loans remained with the federal government, so they

were just taking a cut. and what we did was say, we don't need the middle many -- middleman to take a cut. we're going to have the directly to the students, not do deficit spending, save he money that went to the bunkers. but what congressman akin said is the federal backing of the loans is a problem and without the federal backing the private banks would not be jimmy,0 making the loan. >> moderator: we now proceed to questions from the audience. senator mccaskill you'll go first. i was born in mexico and imgreated to the u.s. at the age of four. since then my family and i have kept a close eye on the immigration policies and the working condition office immigrants. if you are re-elected, senator, or if you become a senator, kingman, how will you influence

these policies and they're related factors. mccaskill: first, we're a nation of immigrants. i'm a former prosecutor and i do believe very much in enforcing the law. i don't think anybody should be allowed to jump the line by breaking the law. so i believe it's very important we enforce those laws, particularly against employers who knowingly hire illegal immigrants. that's the magnet. when i got to washington i asked the immigration custom enforce. agency under president bush, how many employers have you prosecuted for knowingly hired illegal immigrants, taking advantage of them, cheating, not allowing their competitors to have an even playing field? they didn't know. they hadn't emphasized that. we have turned that corner and now you're beginning to see a drop in illegal immigration and part of that is because we're pushing them hearder on the law against employers. on the other hand we should be giving a green card to any student in this done who i wants to stay here. we should be stapling a green

card to their college diploma. we need them. finally, if you're young, child, and you have been brought here through no fault of your own, believe what the bible, they sin is of the father should not by ascribed to the child and they 0 shoot not be forced to return to a country they don't know and never loved, and so that's why i supported the dream act. >> moderator: your response. akin: all of us at one time or another, our parents were immigrants to this lan as well, and one of the things you find in those instances were that people did what we do in america. we followed the law. america is nation of laws. and so we definitely, first of all, have to clean up our laws that have to do with immigration, but at the same time we can't allow the president the authority to just impose a law that's not been passed by congress, which is, of course, what happened on the dream act. and the situation with

immigration is one where we have to allow different states to be able to enforce their own laws, and the federal government has not been enforcing the immigration laws, and you see a crisis on the border. they've even gone to this fast and furious idea, giving high-powerrerred rifles to drug dealers and stuff as people are doing human trafficking to cross our border, and somehow we don't have the back moen the senate and the administration to even enforce our laws. and the first thing off, if you're a nation of law, you have to enforce the law. i'm very sympathetic for people coming to this country, but it has to be done in an orderly and legal process, and that means businesses also shouldn't be hiring illegals. we need to be doing the check on that, which has been closed down. >> moderator: our second question from the audience, and this will go to congressman akin first.

what misconceptions do you want to clarify about yourself? akin: well, thank you for that question. and i suppose that there's nothing like a debate like this for people to just get a chance to take a look and visit people. we've been all over the state, and i really believe that the election process is a fair one and a good one. as i have mentioned, the reason that i'm running for this office is because i see the bright hope for america is being diminished. diminished by a failed record. you can talk and use any distraction you want, but the fact it that there is a record, and the record has not been good. we have had up employment up like anything we have seen since the great depression, and a huge level of deficit. you can talk about being responsible, about spending money and everything, but when you promise that you're going to cut the deficit in half and then triple it, that's not a good sign.

and the healthcare situation also. these are things that people are going to have to take a good look at in this election. you said 71% of missouri citizens said, we don't want obamacare. then you have a senator just right after that goes and votes for it. so i think that people are starting to get an understanding this is an election about records. it's an election about what have we seen in four years? and the fact is, i understand, as i've traveled around the state, people realize it isn't working. it's time for a change. mod mott senator, same question about misconceptions. mccaskill: that's a hard one. people have a misconception that i'm not willing to stand up to anybody and anything when i think the policy involved is wrong. the misconception that because i supported president obama, that i agree with him 98% of the

time. i don't even agree with my mother 98% of the time, much less the president of the united states. i was disappointed when the president wouldn't support my spending cap. he was disappointed when i wouldn't go along with cap and trade. i was disappointed when he refused to quickly approve the keystone pipeline. and i try to think about missourians and don't worry about whose idea ites, whether it's republican or democrat. don't worry if the leader of the democratic party is mad at me. i have had time-outs especially when i was going after appropriators on earmarks. i think correcting the perception that congressman akin is anxious to put out there that somehow i'm doing the building bidding of the party and the president when i'm merely doing the bidding of the residents.

mid-mid-response, 45 seconds. akin: i didn't say she agreed with president obama 98% of the time. i said she voted with him 98% of the time. shoot just -- just want to make sure that's clear. this is a record. this isn't just talk ago promises. this is a record, vote 98% of the time. mccaskill: that record included conversations and proceed sure votes. if you look at the rankings of senators, most liberal to most conservative, for six solid years i have been smack dab in the middle and you don't get to the middle by doing what your party tells you to do. you get to the middle by hard work, compromise, and working with your republican colleagues. >> moderator: our in the question from the audience. senator mccaskill do you support all forms of stem cell research? mccaskill: i do. i think that the lord gave us

intelligence to discover scientific advancements, and i particularly support all of the research that is done that has made us the envy of the world in terms of our ability to find cures. finding cures is an important part of what stem cell research is all about. it gives hope to millions of people in this country. i'm proud of the work done in missouri in terms of this important medical research, and i think it's important it continue. >> moderator: senator, thank you. congressman? akin: i think stem cell research is phenomenal in the kinds of things being done. you almost think some are miraculous, at i recall there were over 40 different stem cell kinds of cures forking ins that anybody necessary a previous decade thought would be totally impossible. there is the embryonic stem cell

part which i don't support but there was major breakthrough last week that showed that you don't need the embryonic, they found a way to make the cells what they call plastic, so you can take an adult cell and make it do the function of any other cell. so there's no real need to do the embryonic, but as some of you know, i'm pro life, and i believe life begins at conception. >> moderator: our next question from the audience, directed to the congressman first. what criteria do you plan to use in deciding whether to vote to confirm a supreme court nominee? akin: i think the first thing is that we are a system of laws, as i mentioned before, and the job of the court is to interpret the existing law, not to create law. so that would be the very first thing i would look for. if you take a look at some of the big social upheavals and lousy decisions you get out of

washington, dc, a lot of them have come from judges who got frustrated and wanted to become legislators. and so that would be the thing i would look for first of all in a judge. i would look for a judge that doesn't think that maybe the constitution is plastic and we need to adapt ideas and stick it in and prethat's part of the constitution. that's not the right way to go. so, i believe that we have to keep the judges doing the proper function of judges, and that would solve an awful lot of problems. it also tends to push problems farther down in the system, so states can decide and local communities can decide what they want to do instead of having the federal government and the supreme court acting like they're god and telling us one thing or another. thank you. >> moderator: senator? mccaskill: as somebody who spent a lot of time in a courtroom, i really look to

judges who have had experience in a courtroom. i think at it important that you can relate to the cases that you hear in a real way. so whether you have spent time as a lawyer in the courtroom, or a trial judge, that's important to me. i tell you the truth, too. this may irritate the justices on the supreme court now, but i'd love to us have a supreme court judge that didn't go to harvard or yale. i really think, having somebody on the supreme court that went to a really good state school, that maybe didn't go to one of the elite ivy schools, would be good for the court. because they have to make a lot of difficult calls, and i know, i know, we don't want activist judges. but the irony is, we have a very conservative court in some ways and they did a very activist thing to give us the citizens united case. activist jumps are in the eye of

the beholder. i if you like the decision, they're not activist. if you don't like the decision, they're activists. the judge is want to confirm are the ones with real life experience in a courtroom and can relayed to people whose lives or at stake. >> another question from a member of our audience, and senator mccaskill, how would you preserve medicare for current and future retirees. >> much differently than my opponent. congressman akin said he believes medicare is up constitutional and he advocates privatizing medicare. he -- i don't think it works to make seniors arm wrestle insurance companies to figure out whether or not their claim will be paid or they can afford the coverage. the way they're among privatizing it would be giving you a certain amount of money to help you buy your insurance, and after that ran out, you're on

your own. i think we have to means-test medicare. i don't think we can afford to buy prescription drugs for people of means, for people who have money. we can't afford that as a nation. we have to figure out a better way to bring down costs by incentavossing the -- innocentizing the system in different ways. my mother, who is ill and has a lot of chronicking, she can have three or four blood works in one month, and we're paying for all of that. no one is even trying to make sure that maybe one set of blood work might get the job done. having a primary care doc that is more of the gatekeeper, incentivizing the hospitals like we did in springfield, take the medicare population, check for customer satisfaction but if you can bring the costs down we'll bonus you. they saved $17 million and the government wrote them 0 a check for 4 million and the taxpayers came out ahead of 13 million.

that makes sense. >> moderator: congressman? akin: let's talk about medicare and let's talk about what the actual record is, claire mccaskill has voted to cut $716 billion out of medicare and i have not. our record is different. what does that $716 billion include? 260 billion for hospital services. 39 billion for skilled nursing. 17 billion for hospice. 66 billion for healthcare. 156 bill for medicare advantage. that's money that she voted to take out of medicare. that does not help medicare. in addition, she voted to put in the 15-person board that has the net effect of moving into

rationinghawkhawk -- rationing health care and that's a bad idea. what we have to do is get the government out of the price setting business for every particular procedure and allow a whole host of people to bid on that, so seniors have a choice of the providers that they want. seniors deserve a choice and they ought to be able to pick the kind of system they want and not have it forced on them by the federal government. there's one thing worse than having the insurance company between the patient and the doctor, and that's having the federal government in between them. >> moderator: senator, 45 seconds for rebuttal. mccaskill: this 716 billion kills me. congressman akin voted to remove the same $716 billion from medicare, not once but twice. in the ryan budget. the difference is, that instead of using that to fill the doughnut hole like we did in the

affordable care act, using that to make sure the hospitals don't need so much reimbursement because they're not taking care of some many people in the emergency room with people. they gave the wealthy in this country another tax cut on top of the bush tax cuts. that's what they did with the 716 billion. i strengthened medicare and never cut one dime of benefits. they decided the thing to do with the money they took out of medicare this, same money, they were going to give another tax cut the wealthy. that's another big difference. akin: claire has it wrong. the $716 billion that the republicans put in our medicare proposal stayed in medicare. we didn't take it out and put it somewhere else. and so that's just factually not correct. >> moderator: congressman? this question from the audience will start with you. what is your policy and your

position about the israeli-iran situation? akin: well, that's a ticklish one. the first thing is i think what we should do is work with the people who are our allies and stop apologizing to people who have been our enemies. i think it is unsafe for our country and for the civilized world for iran to be able to develop nuclear weapons, and in one way or the other, that has to be stopped. i believe that we should -- when we have benjamin netanyahu come to our country, if he wants to have a visit with the president, we should show respect to him and have that visit. and the situation with iran is like the situation in other parts of the middle east. these people, when they see us weak and vacillating and leading from the rear, and apologizing, all that does is to encourage

them. our enemies understand in the middle east and other places, our enemies understand something, and that is an america that is strong. that's why i haven't voted to cut 20% out of the defense budget the way claire mccaskill has. mod mott senator. mccaskill: iran cannot be allowed to get a nuclear weapon and military action must be on the table. but the sanctions are working. we were able to press, and i was part of the group that did press, doing once again bipartisan legislation with my republican colleagues to screw down the sanctions, not just economic sanctions in terms of trade but also cutting them off from the world bank, and finally we have people around the world who joined us. we have iran isolated. ahmadinejad is in real trouble. we can't let them get the weapon but the middle east is tough and you have to be thoughtful. nobody is apologizing to anybody, nobody is leading from behind. we're navigating a very

difficult area there are differences in our records. while i have been on the leading edge of sanctions against iran, congressman akin voted for aid for iran north once but twice in his congressional career, and voted against aid for israel. this is backwards. we have to always support israel, and we should not be supporting iran. >> moderator: congressman, rebuttal? akin: the packages she is talking about, she has misrepresented the record. i'm in fact the one that supporting the fact that we should not be giving foreign money to a number of places, and that includes, of course, libya, and pakistan, and -- let's see, one other country as well. mccaskill: syria. akin: when somebody burns our flags and torture the people that give us informing to get osama bin laden, those people are not our friends, and i don't

support giving them foreign aid. and so i disagree with her comments. >> moderator: senator. mccaskill: congressman akin is having an -- ads are being run against me about vote no on the effort to removal foreign aid from libya pakistan and syria. congressman akin join a very small group in the senate in this position. not one member of the newscast armed services commitee supported this amendment. every single republican said this would make our country in danger. this would not make us safer. this would not make the middle east safer. there were only ten senators that voted for this amendment. this is the position he wants to take the united states senate. once again, being on the extreme edge, not being thoughtful, not being reasonable. this is not politics. this is the safety of our nation. >> moderator: our time is running out, so we now have to proceed to the final part bitby

asking the candidates to offer your final remarks. senator mccaskill. mccaskill: well, has been great to be here at this debate tonight. i appreciate everyone watching and people participating. there are many differences between congressman akin and me and we have had chance to talk about them tonight. but there are many more. i certainly hope the people look at the truth about akin.org and learn the throughout about todd akin's positions. i want to spend a moment on equal pay for equal work. as somebody who was a single mom with three kids and had to work their way through school i'm focused on parity in the work place improve support equal pay for equal work. it's part of the equality guaranteed in our constitution. congressman akin has said that is not what he supports. he supports the boss being able to decide whether or not you get

paid less just because you're a woman. and if you look at kingman akin's dr. kingman aiken's office, he is the boss that does that. his women staff make 23.4% less then men in his office. that is not the way we should have it in america. if you're doing the same work, you should be getting the same pay. also, i think it's very important that we keep government spending down. i have in fact voted, and working to do away with automatic pay raises for congress. i think that is a dumb idea. i sponsored efforts to do away with automatic pay raise for congress. in fact i never voted for an automatic pay raise for congress. congressman akin voted to raise his pay and five days later voted against fully funding the veterans program. that was in 2001. 2002, voted to race his pay two months earlier. the only missouri delegation

member to vote against the farm bill. 2003, voted to raise his pay. the months early, one of 14 saying no to a center for exploded and missing children. september 14, 2004, voted to raise his pay. six months earlier he was one of five to oppose the national school lunch program. 2005, once again, voted to raise his pay. two months earlier voted to cut the veterans programs by $13 billion. voted to raise his pay in 2006. and then voted to cut the vets program by $6 billion in 2007, voted to raise his pay and then one of 36 people to vote against funding for head start. i worked my way through school. went to washington after learning about the pain of victims and the beauty of justice in the courtroom. i learned how to hold government can'table. i'm proud to be called a moderate as your united states

senator. i believe in compromise. i believe in moderation. i believe working with people no matter what their party is. i ask the honor of representing you again. >> moderator: congressman. akin: thank you all for making this evening possible. you may have noted that clir mccaskill wants to escape from the failed basic economic mess that's been created in washington, dc. it's also bit like a magician, look over other here while i put my hand in your pocket, and her advertising backs up nothing about look at the failed programs. both of us voted on a whole series of things and what your decision should be based on is you need to judge on our records. starting off, claire mccaskill made the promise she was going to be transparent in the things she was doing. but when you go to take a close look at that, you find out that she has gotten rich making a

business that takes advantage of other people being in poverty. she transferred $39 million to her home business and there was no record of transparency whatsoever. and she talked about the stimulus bill. it had a million dollars in there show cut funding for veterans and teachers but managed to get million dollars in for her home business. so much for transparency. you have seen what's going on in energy. you got a war on coal. we're stopping drilling. the keystone pipeline, gas prices doubled. jobs, we have a record that is as bad as the great depression. deficits. they said they're going to cult the deficit in half and probe barack obama and claire mccaskill triple it with $1.5 trillion, and then health care, we said we didn't want it. 71% said we didn't want it. what do we get in obamacare because of claire mccaskill.

now, the reason for these failures is because there's this instinctive sense that the federal got has to do everything and that's why the budget is out of control. reason they failed is because they forgot about the rope of america's greatness. america was founded on the idea that we have a creator that messed us with life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. and then we as americans respect life. you see it the way the policeman work in the hospitals and the firemen, and liberty. the idea we can vote, express our opinions. and keep the things we earn. and then the pursuit of happiness, the greatest of all blessings, really. the idea that every single one of us is different and can pursue the dreams in our hearts and as americans have done that, and people say you can't do that. americans say, but i'm going to try.

and as they do that,mer has been built, one dream at a time. it's called the american dream and it's about freedom, and that's the reason why 4% of the world population has produced the great results we have. so i ask you to -- >> moderator: you're out of time. akin: vote for me for the u.s. senate. >> moderator: before we ajunior i want to think the candidates, please know how much we appreciate your willingness to share your respective views. a round of applause is appropriate. [applause] >> moderator: finally our thanks to the events sponsor. our media sponsors. the and the clayton high school jazz band and their director, rob nichols, the school district of clayton and superintendent, and chief communications

officer, and the two members of his communications team, robin anderson and karen mcbride, also, clayton high school senior manager, dave, and the city of clay top police and fire departments, our time keeper as will, rose winmiller of washington university. the aqua system. brighton advertising and the chamber's president, mike, the executive director, and associate director. don't forget to vote on tuesday, november 6th. this concludes our program for the u.s. senate race. thank you for joining us. we stand adjourned. [applause]

>> when i watch c-span i like the congressional hearings. sometimes you actually have the hearings on legislation but more importantly you carry the house of representatives.

the congressional hearing coverage on subjects of particular interest, like veteran affairs or appropriations, but if you're reading about something in the newspaper and you get an idea, this is a public interest, if you want to get depth go to c-span and that's where you can actually get the live testimony, usually an hour or two, the raw data, raw action. >> tom burch, jr. watches c-span on comcast. c-span, created by america's cable companies in 1979. brought to you as a public service by your television provider. >> next a discussion on the highly contested state races in the 2012 elections. jennifer duffy and david wasserman of the cook political report give an update. this is 90 minutes. >> we're turning now to look at the house and senate races and

control over congress. we're joined by jennifer duffy, and david wassermann, the editor of cook political report. let's go with the big picture at first. control of the house and senate. democrats control the senate. republicans the house. are we looking at a potential for a power switch? >> i think in the senate there is the potential for the majority to change. i put a little thumb on the scale for democrats today but i mean right now i'm looking at nine senate races that are within the margin of error and too close to call. it's going to be a very long election night for the senate. >> david wasserman in the house? >> not as much potential for the house to slip. the last three elections the average swing in the house has been 38 seats between 2006 and 2010. we're looking at probable net gain of ten seats in the house. a lot of competitive races relative to the last nonwave

year in 2004 when he had 30 competitive races. this year we have some win 50 and 55 races that are competitive. 62 seats with no incumbent on the ballot, which is a record. so a lot of freshman in the house, just not a whole lot of partisan change. >> do you think people vote with control of the house and senate in mind? are they voting for the part or the individual? >> increasingly they're voting for the party and droll of the house. we -- control of the house. we see less and less ticket splitting than the 1990s. whether it has to do with disintegration of local news and how a national perspective might be covering the way parties are behaving, or the fact there are simply fewer moderates in congress than there used to be to vote for. we're seeing a decline, not only

in the number of swing members, or moderate numbers, but also seeing a decline in the number of swing seats. we released a report that measures the number of seats between the bipartisan 40-yardline has declined from 164 in 1998 to 99 in 2012. so dramatic increase. >> jennifer, how much is the election playing out in the races for the senate? >> i think in a lot of states it does matter. virginia might be a great example of a race that i think is going to be decided in fact by the presidential. you do see -- usually party is not the major factor in senate races. i'm seeing something a little different this cycle-especially in massachusetts, where senator scott brown -- this is her argument, that you may like scott brown but a vote for scott

brown is a vote for a republican senate. >> if you want to join the conversation, here are the numbers to call: >> we're talking bit editors of the cook political report. jennifer duffy, the senate editor, and davids wasserman, the house editor. we can talk about what you're watching. let's talk about virginia for a moment since you brought it up jennifer, what's at play there and how their candidates making their pitch to virginia voters? >> this has been a close race since it started 20 months ago. democrats, former chairman of the democratic national committee, george allen who lost the asset seat in 2006, is a

former governor. this is a truly competitive race. depending on the party you're looking at, you either see tim cain up a couple points, george allen up. this is a race where every single voter matters and both campaigns know and it they're working hard to get every vote out they can for election day. >> general fur duffy, you mentioned the presidential election may be influential. david wasserman are are you seeing house races where the top of the ticket is making a difference? >> absolutely. the top of the ticket has made an increasing impact on house races over the last couple presidential cycles inch 2008 democrats picked up 21 seats in the house on top of the 30 from 2006, in part because there were serge obama: voters. the question is whether they'll show up in 2012 and what impact that has. so i would venture to say the

top of the ticket, even if the presidential vote is closely split between president obama and mitt romney may actually be a slight republican advantage. the rope is obama:'s electoral coalition is so concentrated in democratic districts he is getting margin from -- most of his margins from places where democrats in congress don't need the extra help but a lot of the swing and marginal districts obama: is between 42 and 48% of the vote and a lot of democratic candidates have to run against the incumbent president in order to get traction. >> we'll hear from lisa in dayton, ohio. >> caller: i'm calling because i work with seniors every day, and i'm concerned about this voucher program. and my thing is, i'm one of the ones that follows up under the voucher program. and i pay my tacks -- taxes everytime i get paid.

and how they going to take my money i pay into the medicare and give it back to me in avoucher? >> huh watching congressional races in ohio? what about other races? >> caller: say that, other -- >> host: are you looking at who is running for congress in your district? >> caller: i'm not. i'm look can at what is going on as in the president, and everything else. >> host: lisa brought up voucher. can you address the fact she is focused on the top of the ticket and not looking down the ballot? >> the caller, i presume, shift lives in montgomery county, ohio sex lives in the new district which is represented by congressman turner, who has been a congressman for a decade. this is an example of why democrats are having a tough time getting the 25 seats they

need to get back to the house. the district was drown by republicans but drawn to be a slight majority obama: district if you adjusted the district lines for the 2008 presidential election results. mike turner, the former mayor hoff dayton, is a highly popular local firth but it's the kind of district democrats need to put into play if they wanted to get majority in the house. they're kind, sharon newhart, has run before in a different district. the party strategist in washington initially reserved some ad time in the dayton, ohio, market in the race. they cancelled it to shift resources towards other races, including other races where democrats are playing defense in seats they hold. so democrats are having a tough time putting these kinds of seats in play. >> host: this morning c-span is at lynn university, the sight of the final presidential debate which starts at 9:00 tonight. but to join us this morning we have some lynn university

students who will communicate with our guests, ask questions, and share comments. lynn university is an independent school founded in 1962 and has 2,000 students in five academic colleges and three specialty programs. we want to thank lynn university and comcast for bringing us these students. first up is cynthia. >> caller: any we is do you think obama: will have a positive affect on the congressional races or negative one? >> depends on the district. obviously in some states it's going to be a drag on the democratic candidate, depending on whether the state is red or blue, and in some states it's going to be a very positive impact. the states that we're really most interested in are states like florida, virginia, ohio,

where there are senate races -- these are swing states where the presidential is really close, and that's what we're looking at and in a lot of states the candidates hope their presidential nominee, whether it's president obama or mitt romney, does help them. i know that certainly in florida the republican senate candidate connie mac is counting on rom'm to do well and and help pull him across the line. ...

>> that the electoral votes to is nowhere near the right thing to do. >>host: r-utah gained about the electoral college? how does that play in the congressional race? >> there only two states

that split by district. maine and nebraska. it doesn't look like main will go for mitt romney at this point* or nebraska district will go for obama. we did notice something interesting. of the presidential level obama has gotten better in the swing states compared to nationally. irresponsibility the popular vote goes between the two but it is more likely president obama would win the electoral college not the proper route -- popular vote. if you look at romney and obama basically tied the swing states going to obama it could be 2010 reverse. that is a scenario not what

people want to deal with. >>host: from bet democrat line. good morning. >> caller: my question is if mitt romney wins his main job would be to make the obama of the one-term president. what will he do to combat the democrats in the senate? nothing happens without 60 boats. we are right back where we are now. as you know, you deal with what you get.

i see another stalemate with a lame-duck president. i don't think that will help america at all. >> the caller has a good point* whoever controls the senate the margin is zero. and 51/49. depending on what happens democrats may end up with moderate members like indiana, north dakota, maine. they could joining with whatever moderates are left to become a powerful caucus. unfortunately i do see the possibility that you have another situation becomes extremely difficult to get

legislation out of the senate. >>host: we have another caller. go-ahead. >> caller: with the house races wonder what qualifies the race as competitive? >> in excellent question. early in the psycho we focus more attention on past election results. then we get to know the candidates. oftentimes we meet with candidates and jennifer meets with plenty of those for senate and governor and see if they are a good profit for the district they're seeking to represent. that is a good predictor then as we get closer we focus on how much money they have raised and now we have

more than we can handle. we have more polls fam poland for about the congressional global pc loopholes for the house race done on private tracking basis and public media outlets pretty much every day. we use that as a guidepost using their own numbers to suggest if erases truly competitive. we see 2728 right now as a toss up. if we see one party has an advantage the ratings are available online but

republicans have more seats in jeopardy banks to the huge win in 2010. how many races are run the senate? >> 9 + inane which is its own special case. our definition of a tossup is a race in single digits incumbent has to be below 50%. i have nine races right now within the margin of error. three or four in either direction. these are all focused on election night. >>host: one of the tossup in montana. "the washington post" says in recent weeks the race is

intensely personal each candidate tries to show he is real well trying to disqualify. look at an ad by senator tester. >> john tester does not pack much when he goes back to washington by the always brings his montana routes. he stands up for montana values reducing the deficit, making sure kids can go to college, protecting social security and medicare, the second amendment, making the u.s. senate looking more like montana. >> night and john tester i approve this message. >> and i approve of her cocaine. [laughter] >> a little -- some people are a little grossed out but one of the very first ads he

ran in the spring. this race has been going on and since march 2011. he won the seat in 2006 by a beating conrad burns who was weighed down by ethics problems but he barely won the race. montana has some 81 congressional district also a lieutenant governor. this is a race as republicans try to dent testers claim of independence he votes in the interest of montana and not his party reappear is voting record on dodd/frank and others with the thought he

is out for himself he thinks lobbying is an honorable profession. in the past month that has come down to character. this race has not moved more than two points in months. these candidates have to feel they are running of marathon on a treadmill without the ipod. it is my after mile with the same thing. >>host: let's go to lou win university we have a student waiting. good morning. >> day think the outcome of this election will generate interest. >> changes. i am sorry.

>> but whrry. >> but when it is close not a big majority does that play a role and have an influence? >> we bit -- leaders on the republican side are campaigning not just for they are competitive but remember is far more likely to be elected. they want to shore up not only there majority but a huge class of freshmen the likely to be members of the class dramatically different on republican and democrat side. this is the first time in history that white men will be a minority. down a 53% thanks to retirement to members who

were predominantly white in new minority districts like california and texas we will see between 46 and 48% as white men eric cantor who was perceived to have higher ambitions is campaigning for republicans speaker john boehner is focusing his efforts with congressional leadership with his friends and allies so both leaders of the republican side have super pac stand on the trail. >>host: also talk about the "cook political report" look at the senate. looking back six years ago

we saw a lot of democrats come and and now there seats are up. why i there so many? >> when a party has a good year as democrats did 2006 and 2008 you pay the price six years later. of the 33 races, democrats have to defend 23 of them and 2014 the ratio is not that different everything comes around and in 2016 republicans will have to mood defend their seats because of the gains in 2010. lot of the freshmen have done well and senator tester is the most who vulnerable of the freshman class clair mccaskill probably held the honor until she pulled a

week republican challenger. but sheriff brown from ohio six years ago he may have been at the top of the list has run a very good campaign anywhere between nine points where as close as five. he is doing well but this class of democrats really work to shore them up to know what kind of reese's they could have. >>host: we have a republican caller. good morning. >> caller: i noticed how the cycle youtube has been important for me to get my and permission.

i am a political junkie but right wing republican christian. i voted for reagan-bush mccain bush and now i go out against the rnc for president and also virginia senate because i am voting against the rule change down in tampa i will not go to another republican. either a third party or i will abstain. as far as youtube my son set me something with the james holes conspiracy. >>host: what upset you at

the republican convention? >> the rnc had trouble with the insurgent ron paul. they slammed through the rules change almost making it impossible for the insurgent to overtake the establishment candidate. i am not an expert. they can pick their own delegates. >> this caller is very unusual with the rnc rules. that was controversial especially among the ron paul supporters. on the other hand, with the insurgent candidate is strong enough they stop being the insurgent and start becoming the

establishment candidate. i don't think it precludes the outsider from getting the nomination but it does prevent a chaotic conventions. the caller has to realize the rnc and dnc job is to win the elections. they do what they can. but to vote for that reason is very unusual. >>host: we have a president from the college republicans. >> good morning. my question is the to favorite campaigns governor harry and governor huntsman. should they not win in a couple of weeks there will

be a big debate about the future of the party. people want them to go down governor pierre e routing governor huntsman what do feel the direction of the party if the romney campaign is not successful? >> i would direct the caller to the results of then hampshire primary. if you take a look at a map of new hampshire some of the only towns that he won? hanover, he repeals to republican intellectuals but a very small price of -- slice of the party. he was railing against the republican known to denigration of science and warning the party not to go off the social conservative cliff.

i don't think that is the problem they are now consolidating that is what huntsman represented in the campaign. if you have of kennedy in the future as long as he can remember the three talking points. [laughter] he will have a good chance not himself but a candidate would have a possible chance of winning the nomination. >> governor perry will run for reelection. the still possibly could be a player depending done what happens. >> good morning. i have two primary questions. with the increased use of the orders by the executive

branch and from the bench is the congress becoming more policy making them legislative? via the question with the attorneys comprising the executive branch and the judicial branch it is a conflict of interest. >> if the caller is still on the line i will highlight some interesting races in indiana. there are some fascinating things going on particularly in the southern part of the state. i am not sure exactly which district the caller is from. election night i will watch terre haute note -- indiana it has successfully predicted every presidential

election since 1956. the only county of over 3,000 but fortunately for us we will see the results from southern indiana viewers can watch the great catalog county by county for kelso in the bloody eight that has the story history competitive congressional races. again this year. democrats could win it 2006 then lost it 2010. now the congressman is a republican freshman, former surgeon who is facing dave crooks say local radio broadcaster focusing on ag issues but now high-school basketball games.

in a district with a 10,000 seat arena that is of big deal. i still think it means to the republican. >> do we see any shift and philosophy? is that played out on the campaign trail? with the caller's point* why has the obama administration use executive order? they cannot get the agenda through because it gets to the house and guys. but the way they have chosen to do things like the dream match. if congress has anything to

fear it is less and less relevant. but what we do here candidates talk about congress needs to work to break the logjam. that is played out the most common term i can work across the i/o. >>host: let's go to our next student and is the president of the college democrats. go-ahead. >> caller: thank you for having us. with senator nelson bain the last statewide democrat in florida how important it is his race for democrats and the senate?

>> i think florida is important. it is not tossup right now but senator nelson has run a pretty good race. the problem is the republican side. i eight joke that i interview more candidates that did not run. it took awhile for a congressman to be merged. connie mack but what is hurting nelson is he becomes very polarized there is not much of the independent approach and outside groups have spent millions soften amy will send up.

the argument is he says one thain in florida and as a mother and washington. and makes them more vulnerable. he could win the seat if mitt romney does not carry florida by eddies and march 10. if the race is not close until sen could have a problem in every seat is important this time. >>host: editor for the coke political report is in charge of the senate races and david wasserman is the house under and has been there since 2007. talk about congressional races in the house and senate, we lost him. now let's go to lou george

on the republican and nine from texas. >> caller: question on ted cruise. where did he come from? where did they find him? how will the local man it fair? i am first-generation and mexican american and parents could never approach and they influenced me on the first time i voted at 18. i you voted for dukakis but as it went to college and looked at the values halide vote for people that share my values i do not form them around them i am now republican. what about hispanics? are they more like me or follow the democratic talking points? >> the caller i presume is

texas is represented by cold% he had a tough race in 2008 and he ended up winning by a double digits in a very democratic year that discouraged challengers from running. but republicans made the district even more republican with three districting that cold% is absolutely safe. out of the district's there's only one right now that is a genuine tossup. the only reason why republicans could not turn it into a safe seat because courts overruled the original proposed map that reverted the seat to a strong latino majority. so there is a heated contest between the incumbent called

conseco and the democratic challenger. it is a very, very competitive contest stretching from el paso to san antonio. but that is the example how congress is becoming very polarized. >> we sometimes forget to because that raises about the primary. the former state attorney general, i am not sure republicans found him but especially the more conservative way he got support from people like senator rand paul, marco

rubio, even now he was of the underdog he beat him in the runoff. it is not contested at all. is a done deal cement the senate forerunner on the line with a considerable part you can see that image of good g.o.p. candidate watching returns that jennifer erred duffy said is a big night in that race. now we're joined by air next guest. >> caller: women are one of the main